Doing a little bit of battleclinic research on the OP reveals the OP killed a 5 day old character, not just once, but 3 times within a 7 minute time frame. Perhaps this is what the GM was getting on you about?

GǪin which case they need to make this rules-change clear and actually reference which rule they're enforcing when swinging that hammer.

Yes, asking them to communicate rules changes is pretty rational. Why are you so upset that people are asking for it?

Some rules are vague on purpose and they will remain vague. This is the 'reckless driving' equivalent. If I define the rules to the last dot someone will simply find a loop hole and use it. The rule is "do not mess with rookies", and if you are in doubt the answer is ALWAYS 'do not do it'.

Senior GM Homonoia | Info Group | Senior Game Master

So what people are conveniently skipping over here is the problem that this supposed ruling makes all of the SOE epic arc systems off limits for any kind of can flipping, ninja-ing, and baiting. This means that the following systems have been added to the 'no touch zone' (even against non-noobs, if we follow the way the rookie systems are handled):

- Arnon
- Emsar
- Manarq
- Tar
- Larvier
- Ashokon
- Attyn
- Avyuh
- Hatakani
- Hek
- Lustrevik
- Tanoo
- Harerget

And a few others I can't recall off the top of my head. The point of the OP wasn't to question whether or not shooting someone who just started the game is lame (which it is), but the fact that the GMs are arbitrarily enforcing a very clear rule in places it doesn't belong. The GMs need to make clear their expansion of systems, or actually train their GMs.

If they do plan expanding this protection to all epic arc systems, they need to think twice about how much protection this will offer to the veteran players who run the arcs (and who are, incidentally, the majority of the people who actually run the soe epic arc).

No, he's pretty much 100% wrong because he has failed to understand the issue, as he always does.

The quote you're using is completely irrelevant. The question is, as always, whether or not they have expanded the rules about can baiting/flipping to new systems without telling anyone. If so, could they please stop doing that and actually communicate such rules changes, because they have far-reaching implications.

The question at hand is whether or not the rookie system rule, in which all can-baiting, ninja-ing, and can-flipping are COMPLETELY off limits - even against veteran players in that system. The OP wanted to know if the epic arc systems are now ruled as rookie systems, in which case all non-war related kills are outlawed. This is not about whether or not killing rookies is ok, but whether or not CCP decided to make a bunch of blatantly non-rookie systems, safe-zones.

Learn to read before you post.

GǪis completely irrelevant because that is not the issue.

I'm lost, what is everyone actually discussing at this point.

Source

The rules regarding rookie systems are explicitly clear. Doing anything but killing war targets in rookie systems is considered griefing, regardless of whether or not the target is a rookie. This means if the player is 6 years old and dies to you can flipping in the rookie systems, you have violated the EULA and can be warned/banned. If they expand the list of rookie systems to include the epic arc systems, this ruling also includes all non-rookies in those systems.

So again, pull your head out of your ass before you post.

Way to be dense. The rookie system rules prevent any form of flipping, ninja-ing, etc in those systems, NOT just against rookies.

What you do NOT understand is that the warning/ban the OP was discussing mentioned that the epic arc systems WERE NOW CONSIDERED ROOKIE SYSTEMS. What people want to know is whether or not CCPs definition of rookie systems has been expanded. Have you even read the OP?

The question is: has this list of systems been expanded to include the (high-traffic, very normal) SOE-arc systems, giving them the same blanket restrictions as the old systems?

I swear, you must have downs.

The rules explicitly state that activities such as can-baiting and flipping are only considered griefing in rookie systems.

They then explicitly list rookie systems.

Now, warnings are being given stating that can-baiting in SOE epic arc systems is griefing, but there has never been any posts, blogs, nor announcements indicating that these systems have switched to being considered rookie systems.

All the OP wants, is a confirmation whether or not these systems are now actually considered rookie systems. If they are, the GMs need to explicitly list every single system that is considered a rookie system, since you are not allowed to do any non-war related pvp in those systems.

If these systems are not considered rookie systems, then this needs to be clarified, the warning/ban removed, and the GM staff informed of this.

Incorrect. The answer is: we don't know; could the GMs please clarify.

Now you're getting it.

GǪexcept we don't know that. So you can make your version as clear as you like. It doesn't alter or answer the question.

Some rules are vague on purpose and they will remain vague. This is the 'reckless driving' equivalent. If I define the rules to the last dot someone will simply find a loop hole and use it. The rule is "do not mess with rookies", and if you are in doubt the answer is ALWAYS 'do not do it'.

Senior GM Homonoia | Info Group | Senior Game Master

Then don't cherry-pick the rules being asked about and the questions being asked. Also, don't make up your own facts.

You can keep posting that quote. It is as irrelevant as the first time you posted it because it doesn't address the question in the slightest.

Some rules are vague on purpose and they will remain vague. This is the 'reckless driving' equivalent. If I define the rules to the last dot someone will simply find a loop hole and use it. The rule is "do not mess with rookies", and if you are in doubt the answer is ALWAYS 'do not do it'.

Senior GM Homonoia | Info Group | Senior Game Master

I just want to know whether or not CCP is officialy calling the SOE Epic Arc Systems rookie systems. The warnings/bans I originally spoke of specifically mentioned that they were for griefing in a rookie system, and that the event took place in Arnon. Specifically, the warnings were issued for griefing non-rookies in the epic arc systems, not for killing 2 week-old rookies.

Hunting week old characters is not worth anyone's time, and is not the point of the post. The problem is that the rookie system rule prevents me from killing the several month old dumbass flying a vindicator. CCP needs to clarify if these systems are now protected by the 'rookie-griefing' blanket ruling that prevents all non-war based pvp in those systems.

Ok. let's repeat what you said:

GÇ£THIS GUY GOT HIS BAN/WARNING FOR SCREWING WITH ROOKIES.GÇ¥

Made up. The quote you keep using is as irrelevant as the first time you posted it because it only applies to your made-up case. The quote answers nothing. Repeating it answers nothing GÇö it just shows you've not understood what the question is.

GǪit would still not make your GǣfactGǥ any less made up. You're trying to answer a question that is not being asked because you assume that this answer will be the right one based on a completely different assumption about the facts of the case.

The actual question being asked is whether the rookie-system rules has been expanded to include a whole new set of systems, and your precious quote doesn't answer this.

About what?

More to the point: so what? Don't go for the ad hominem. It's still a question worth asking, and it's still worth a proper answer.
Assuming that a different rule is being applied doesn't answer the question.

Just remember you two, you are more often on the same side than not.

Just sayin'.

holy wall of text Batman.

Regardless of whether or not the OP lied, the GMs should explicitly state whether or not the SOE epic arc systems are covered by the rookie system rule.

I realize that you have trouble understanding this, and you're clinging onto anything you can because your ego will be destroyed by being wrong on the internet, but the question posed by the OP, regardless of whether or not everything in the OP was 100% accurate, needs to be answered.

Nice posting

Hek? a rooky system? WTF?

I do not like where you are going. Give the new people a better tutorial so they understand the consequences of their actions instead of putting up these artificial limitations.

Although its odd thinking of Hek as a rookie system.

Read my post. I'm saying that the tutorials should explain the dangers of stealing form cans and other common things like canflipping. If the new players understand the dangers, rules like these should not be needed.

Oh Wow....seems you are one of those which happily show newbies how harsh Eve is in their very first start....you know the Tutorials require to dock off and get the first ship? And then a newbie returns sees a can labeled 'free stuff' until then he had just done the first step YOU REALLY think he would know about those consequences taking the stuff inside this can will have for him?

Geezus Christ....GM Homonoia should maybe have a look in your kill list and find alot of Newbie kills in it.....if so...enjoy your vacation my friend.

mfg

Andre Jean Sarpantis ( Roleplayed nephew from the Serpentis Founder )

Well i dont like it but

Ty for anwsering

Then define a rookie please.Is it a player on a trial account? How can we see this ingame?

Stupid is as stupid does

I definitely understand the not-shooting at rookies if they take a flipped can, I was more concerned with the more common use-case of can-flipping, which is simply stealing to gain aggro against the owning player/corporation.

As long as it's still legal to steal from non-rookies and kill them (via flipping, stealing, ganking, ninjaing, war, or any other means) in these systems, then this is a perfectly reasonable rule. If these 25 systems are 100% safe zones for all players, then that's completely out of line and goes against the whole "no-where is safe" thing.

Even after sleeping you seem to be unable to understand anything that is said in this thread.

If you read my posts, I actually stated that rookies should be protected in these systems. The problem is that the pages that state the rules regarding these systems indicate that everyone is completely safe in the listed systems, but the GMs here are saying that this is only kinda-sorta true, and will be arbitrarily decided on a case-by-case basis.

What several of us are asking for is the page to fully explain the rules - so that it is clear that only rookies are protected (even if rookie is not explicitly defined), but that non-rookie pilots are fair game. If this is not explicitly stated, all this will lead to is even more petitions that are hashed out because some veteran in a drake got ninjad/killed in Arnon, then cried because it was against the rules, even though it apparently isn't.

Those are the same rules. There is no difference. You cannot mess with rookies. You can mess with anyone else no matter the system. veterans are NOT protected in rookie systems.

Instead of banning noob griefers have CCP put contracts on them. A known griefer goes red and is gankable in noob systems for "x" amount of days/time without CCP interference. Perhaps make the griefer a target in all of high sec? Let the players police the issue.

I am sure this is a terrible idea...flame away.

Why I'm still bothering to respond to you is beyond me, but here goes.



Source

This is why I want it clearly stated on the wiki page, as the GM answers, regarding non-rookies, are literally changing every-other post.

Remember, adding non-rookie systems like Hek and Arnon to the list opens up other griefing oppurtunities

1. Create new toon
2. Set course to Hek
3. Probe a mission runner
4. Steal loot
5. Report him for griefing when he shoots you<
6. Collect tears.

I am still very much in favor of improving the tutorials with a lot of info about game mechanics instead of these rules.

Personally I feel some of the GM's are not up to the job and their discretion is poorly implementated. I also feel that rookies should not be protected and in-game mechanics should be used in place to help rookie pilots understand the basic nature of eve. If a rookie gets killed its not as if they lose much in the first place. What if a new player buys a character with an officer fit tengu. Can they be classed as rookies? What about alts?

I don't kill rookies myself unless Im at war with them or something like that.

Personally I don't think a GM or a senior GM response is good enough in this manner. I would much prefer an official GM response and also some CSM responses.

You got a CCP response. /me looks at my GM tag. Yep, CCP

Since The Mittani controls CCP, according to certain threads about Inferno 1.1 in the Test Feedback Forum, shouldn't you be asking for a response from him?

/tinfoil

As with most people arguing against Tippia and getting ALL CAPS LOCK ALL THE TIME mad about it, you have no idea how misinformed you look to the rest of us.

It's a good /popcorn thread at your expense, so thanks for that.

I never finished SOE, does that make me a rookie if I go do it now?

does the GM and CCP realize that the only thing left in eve worth doing anymore is tear harvesting?

does CCP and the GM not see that that would indicate a huge failure of their game when players would rather **** people off than do one of several legitimate in-game activities?

does this not speak volumes to you guys?

so i kill hulks because of their low cut blouses?

huh?

Another sad carebear projecting his own thought process on other players.

This game, ultimately, is about one player blowing up* (teehee) another PERIOD, DOT, End of Sentence.

All those rookie poppers are doing is introducing them to the cold hard truth of EVE. They're trying right from the start to filter out the whiney little anti-pvp kids from those that can understand what this game is about right from day one.

Aura tells rookies what to expect from this game, if they ignore that lovely voice, they do so at their own peril.

There's a rookie channel for those newbies, there's Aura, there's the forums, there's thousands of newbie articles. Countless resources for those new guys to go to, to figure out what's happened and how to stop it.


You, sir, are a doodyhead. Poopbreath.

socratic...is that you? XD

Well it looks like we may be coming to the end of thread with the personal attacks and mudslinging now so I just wanted to say Thank you, 5 stars, was a great read and will read again.